Energy group meeting notes (26.09.2024)

Here is what we covered:

  • ACT and TDC have piloted a new joint initiative to help householders and businesses better understand their use of energy, starting with electricity. Here is a link to this behavioural change session if you’d like to take advantage of this free offer.
  • We fed back on the successful defence of all the Climate Change policies in the local plan. The examiner understood the importance of these policies and why they needed to exceed the current building regulations in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
    While ACT would want to see a much more ambitious plan on climate mitigation, we have to accept that the plan needs to remain within legal bounds. Nevertheless, some key policies were retained despite appeals from developers and some were even strengthened.
  • Many will have heard about the ‘smart grid’ and how this is an important component to decarbonise by electrifying heating and transport. The thinking behind this is to ensure that as capacity of the grid grows rapidly, we need to optimise where and when generation/consumption of this electricity happens. This is because many parts of the grid are unable to cope with the increased usage and reinforcing it is very expensive and time consuming.
    As an introduction to this topic, you may want to watch this video about Virtual Power Plants (VPPs).  Dave Borlace’s Just Have A Think is an excellent source of really good information put across in a captivating and accessible way. But even Dave occasionally gets carried away with aspects of what he is presenting.
    We discussed whether, as claimed, VPPs are reducing the grid’s Carbon Intensity (i.e. reducing the overall ghg emissions from electricity). The jury is certainly out here in the UK, at least for the time being. Have a look and have a think yourself, let me know what you think!
    To help you spot the bold claim, here is a hint. It is also a link to yet another website that has recognised the widespread ‘Greenwash’ associated with marketing ‘green’ electricity. Even Money Supermarket has a more nuanced take on this.
  • We briefly touched on the subject of offsetting, especially through tree planting. Here is what this offsetting scheme agent says about their offsetting offer “Yes we do, we love trees. BUT there simply isn’t enough land to plant enough trees. Also, we do not believe that you can successfully plant and nurture a tree for just $5. On average, 18% of planted saplings die within the first year, rising to 44% after five years. Some of the best recorded rates are 80% survival. So, cheap tree-planting is neither practical or effective and is often used to greenwash.”
    Shame they didn’t also mention how long it’ll take before the tree starts to sequester carbon dioxide or how much.
  • We spent some time looking at a question about the energy efficiency difference between wall mounted radiators and wet underfloor heating (UFH), especially when using a Heat Pump (HP). Also, at what point would the investment in retrofitting to a wet UFH system pay back from the difference in energy efficiency?
    The quick answer is that there is no or marginal difference in energy efficiency if all other parameters are the same. This is because the same amount of energy would be delivered into the same space.
    However, because UFH gets the heat to the occupants more direct, they would feel warmer for the same energy input. This may (should?) result in them turning down the thermostat and indirectly reducing the energy demand. How much energy could be saved depends on several things, not least the building’s heat loss and thermal mass characteristics and the characteristics of the heat generator (esp. flow temp.). It is unlikely, in most situations, that retrofitting to wet UFH will itself pay back from potential saving in energy use. Nevertheless, if a deep retrofit is being considered for other reasons and UFH can be installed, it is well worth doing.  
  • Some dubious claims on super savings from reputable sources such as this Guardian article’s claim. See if you can spot this (answer next month).
  • Drawdown is a source of comprehensive advice on mitigating Climate Change. We didn’t have time to discuss who it is aimed at and what does it cover. We’ll try and do this next time, but do send in your views.
    Some concerns include: Global calculations; aimed at corporate and government despite personal advice; data is not kept up to date; does not cover goods and services.

Written by Fuad

Energy group coordinator

fuad@actionclimateteignbridge.org


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6 responses to “Energy group meeting notes (26.09.2024)”

  1. Val Mawhood avatar
    Val Mawhood

    I am shocked and disappointed to learn about the misleading ‘green’ claims of the various electricity suppliers including Octopus which I switched to because of the claims!
    Why can’t electricity be used in areas close to where it is being generated, depending on what, eg off-shore or on-shore wind or hydro electric? with only surplus going to the grid? Surely this would greatly reduce the pressure on the Grid?

    Until the NPPF is revisited by Central Government developers will continue to avoid anything they can to maximise their profits whilst local Councils are almost powerless to challenge them. Developers have deep pockets to fight any objections raised whilst Councils have limited means and an obligation to manage ‘public’ money carefully.

    Surely all new housing should have grey water usage and solar panels built in? Sites should be designed to allow each unit at least part of the roof to be suitable to accommodate panels?

    All hard-standing areas should have permeable surfaces on housing developments, car parks, industrial estates.

    All public buildings including schools and hospitals should also use grey water and have solar panels (even retro-fitted) and likewise every industrial unit/building.

    What is difficult about changing the planning regs this way?

    Local Authorities can only ‘ask’ a developer until Gov changes the rules!

  2. Fuad Al-Tawil avatar
    Fuad Al-Tawil

    Thank you for these comments Val.
    The good news is that several of the points you raise are already in the local plan. That’s what working collaboratively with the council can achieve.

    The new local plan for Teignbridge will require developers to exceed buidling regulations and achieve Net-Zero ghg emissions from the outset, at least for developments of 10 or more units. Also, for the first time as far as I know, the council will require a statement from the developers about embodied emissions (that is emissions from the construction phase).

    Why not write to Octopus and ask them what plans they have to replace their UK REGO and European GoO certificates with new PPAs from renewable generators in the UK (close to where they sell their electricity)?

    The emissions associated with supply and waste water processing are not significant. Here in the South West we don’t yet have a shortage of water, nevertheless we should look after it and use it sparingly. A much more significant contributor to ghg emissions from water use is heating it. You can find out how to reduce this using our advice on effective actions which you can access from the CFT (https://actionclimateteignbridge.org/newsite/page.php/page/carbon-calculator?2024-09-24T14:21:33+00:00).

  3. Scott Williams avatar
    Scott Williams

    I’m on Kraken – is that a VPP? We are a ‘zero bill home’ now thanks to Kraken through Octopus – and we have 2 EVs under that umbrella too!
    I notice sometimes our batteries do get ‘taken over’ by their system at times too to supply presumably my neighbours.

    Are you sure that Octopus (Kraken) are making these false claims? The GCC article you link to still mentions Bulb – they are long gone. How old is this claim that 90% of their energy is just REGO certificates? Is there a more uptodate source now that Octopus manage their systems with Kraken and shave so many more customers selling their energy back? Is there an uptodate Renewables Obligation Certificates allocation for 2023 anywhere?

    Isn’t the Guarantees of Origin date from 20222 before Kraken’s national inception, I ask hopefully? They’re selling Kraken around the world – it’s hugely disappointing to hear whole nations buying into it are being conned! Particularly as they are just moving Kraken into the water sector as well.

    1. Fuad Al-Tawil avatar
      Fuad Al-Tawil

      Kraken is a ‘platform’ for managing a large number of transactions. It was developed by Octopus Energy and is being used by several other licensed energy retailers in the UK and beyond. Not to be confused with the Kraken crypto currency exchange!

      Octopus Kraken does support/enable VPP as well as providing innovative ‘smart’ features to engage users in their energy use, currently electricity they import/export via the national grid.

      As we discussed at our meeting and is hinted at in the notes, such platforms and innovations will be necessary to eventually decarbonise the electricity grid. However, we are some way away from this holy grail, contrary to the impression some providers give. See my reply to Jules re the ‘evidence’ which also applies to the Octopus Kraken claims on ghg emissions.

      It may well be the case that Octopus now source less than 90% of their electricity from UK and European certificates (REGO & GoO). More likely it has increased as they are so successful at growing their customer base, including through acquisitions like Bulb. Unfortunately, Ofgem has not published the 2023 data yet, so you’ll need to ask Octopus “what % of the UK electricity you supply is from direct UK PPAs, REGO and GoO?”.

      Most importantly, not using fossil fuels does not automatically mean you are reducing your greenhouse gas (ghg) emissions, even if you install PV, HP or buy and EV. Reducing your energy consumption, on the other hand, does. You can work out, pretty accurately, how much any of these actions will reduce (or increase) YOUR ghg emissions. Just go to our CFT here:
      https://actionclimateteignbridge.org/newsite/page.php/page/carbon-calculator?2024-09-24T14:21:33+00:00

  4. Julian Stringer avatar
    Julian Stringer

    Scott the ‘Have a think’ video that was linked showcased Kraken, so definitly classed this as a VPP. The discussion we had was not conclusive, but I think Octopus puts its own case much better than I can, so here is a link to their Green Energy page https://octopus.energy/green/#green_electricity here it talks about:
    – 6bn worth of renewable generation, with a commitment to expand this through ownership of Octopus Energy Generation.
    – PPAs with 700 renewable generators in the UK – recently (and not mentioned on their website are a PPA to buy energy from 14 of Gresham House’s battery sites at a fixed price(higher than they can get on average from ESO) and a PPA with Dogger Bank wind farm for up to 2.4TWh enough to supply 24% of Octopus’s customer base.
    – Buying electricity from 100,000 domestic customers.
    – Encouraging communities and landowners to host wind turbines via the fan club.
    – Supporting schemes such as Energy Local, Ribble Energy and so on.
    They certainly do use REGOs and add their own justification in the page linked, but it is difficult to see that is now as high as 90%
    – Offering incentives to avoid energy use at peak times

    Turning to the question of do VPPs help to green the grid, which was the original discussion that 3 of us had. We know that as demand increases available electricity from cleaner sources runs out and we need to use gas then oil and (until very recently) coal. So shifting demand from peak times should avoid using dirtier sources. We also know that renewable generation fluctuates, and if it can’t be consumed needs to be curtailed. In order to reduce emissions from energy consumption (all sorts) we need to electrify. This means that some additional large loads are appearing on the electricity network, vehicles and heating being the main examples. Unlike normal domestic loads (lighting, kettle, cooking, entertainment) these large loads do not generally need to run at a specific time. A VPP tries to manage supply and demand to minimise curtailment of renewable generation by use of storage and management of demand. It helps if this coincides with optimising the finances.
    There are issues with National Grid ESO which might make a VPP work less well:
    – The transmission network does not have capacity to transmit from a multiplicity of renewable sites to where demand is.
    – The computer systems used for scheduling generation at the transmission level predate the expansion of renewables so tend to schedule gas, curtail renewables and not use batteries.
    To my mind this can and must be fixed.

  5. Fuad Al-Tawil avatar
    Fuad Al-Tawil

    Good on you Jules for putting the case for Octopus.

    Just to be clear, Octopus Energy is a very important player in shaking up the energy market in the UK. It has excellent marketing to attract and engage customers in how they use their energy. They are probably one of the best in terms of customer service/engagement, innovation and flexibility.

    It is therfore a real shame that they feel the need to obscure their otherwise excellent message on reducing ghg emissions with misleading messaging and language. They are by no means the worst in that respect, but given their credentials one would expect better. They do not need to play the same ‘greenwash’ game the others do.

    I could not spot a single number in all the ‘evidence’ you have provided or indeed those on Octopus’ website that state what percent of their electricity supply in the UK is direct PPA, REGO and GoO. For example 700 PPAs (one assumes they are direct) sounds a lot, but could be as little as 700 MWh p.a.. Without the % breakdown of total electricity supplied, we have to rely on Ofgem’s data, all be it 2 years old.

    You are right that the grid and its transmission/distribution operators lag behind in terms of providing the capacity and the platforms to enable and encourage a reduction in ghg emissions. Government policy is still a major drag on this being achieved, but there are signs that things are changing within Ofgem.

    In the meantime a good rule of thumb is to use 0.25 kg CO2e per kWh of grid electricity. More up to date numbers can be found by accessing the CFT.
    https://actionclimateteignbridge.org/newsite/page.php/page/carbon-calculator?2024-09-24T14:21:33+00:00

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